The Future of Fort Collins: Growth, CSU, Politics & What It Means for You

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This is the Living in Fort Collins podcast and today we had Kurt Baer, Greg Rader, and Miss Jenny Arndt on and we talked deep about all things Fort Collins, Northern Colorado from CSU to business, government, public, private partnerships, a lot of insight from very intelligent, well-connected individuals here in Fort Collins. So I'm excited for you guys to listen this, listen deep, pay attention, let's go. Welcome to the first collaboration podcast between yours truly, the host of the Loco Experience. Maybe we'll go over here. Yeah, Patrick Stukup with Living in Fort Collins, the podcast. Greg Rader with the Selling Fort Collins podcast.

And Jenny Arndt, I suppose, former mayor of Fort Collins. Yeah, so what I think we should do, oh, and I'm Kurt Baer, I didn't say that, but everybody knows Kurt Baer. Absolutely. Why don't we set the stage for people that don't know the all of us and do like a 90-second introduction of your place in the world and even your family a little bit and so people do who's in the room here. Yeah, so yeah, Patrick Stukup again. This is, I kind of, born and raised here in Fort Collins, been running a YouTube channel called Living in Fort Collins for the last five years. I used to say a small boutique brokerage, but we went underneath a larger brokerage house recently.

So I run a team, a real estate team here in Northern Colorado. But ultimately, family, raising here in Fort Collins, you kind of learn to take it for granted how amazing of a place this is and then you kind of start to work with people that relocate to the area, understand all of the cool things that are happening here. And so we started this podcast, YouTube channel, and really dove deep about all things Fort Collins and Northern Colorado. Investigate in what makes it so awesome. Absolutely, so that's kind of it in a nutshell. I like it. Greg. My name is Greg Rader. I have been a real estate agent in Fort Collins for the past over 20 years now.

I have helped my entire family tree move here, my parents, my brother, my cousins, my aunts, my uncles. You didn't offer the commissions probably, right? Realtors will do anything. It helped those early years. Those early years, it helped a lot. We all live in a five minute radius of each other, the North side of town, all the little ones, all the adults, and it's been amazing. I'm also teaching at Colorado State University, teaching real estate principles, finance, investments, and have the Selling Fort Collins podcast. I've had that going on, just trying to kind of keep people informed of the trends, the people, the stories that are happening here in Fort Collins.

Love it. And Jenny James, outside of being the former mayor, how would you 90 seconds us? Thank you for calling me that. I have reclaimed my name, which is a very special thing. For 12 years, I had a title and now I get to have my name back. Well, I took it from your email. I think that's a really cool name. Anyway, yeah. So I guess three weeks old, my parents moved me up here from Boulder where they had been grad students. And my dad was involved and president of the chamber one year. My mom's been involved in the community a long time and then had the honor of serving as the mayor from 21 to a few weeks ago.

Thank you to the voters of Fort Collins for trusting me. And I'll be moving on to a new adventure. I have just a small LLC and I have a couple people, entities that have asked me to help them out with some, I'm gonna be focusing on governance and community relations. I'm also the chair of something called Courageous Colorado. So you're gonna be like an insider brokering bribes. Yeah, well, just keep doing what I used to do. Exactly, for the big bucks. No, and I'll be chair of Courageous Colorado, which is basically an election reform group in Colorado thinking about how we can have policies that really allow people to have their voices heard because 52% of Colorado have independence and people in Colorado are saying, maybe the parties aren't really doing it for me, but we certainly want to be.

Are they gonna get all the dead people off the voter rolls too? They are off. We have clean elections. Okay, good. Sorry, I just read the Twitter sometimes and stuff. Kirby and Kurt. Well, today's podcast is really gonna be an exploration, I think, of Fort Collins as it is today. Wait a second, who are you? Oh, Kurt Baer, the host of the Loco Experience Podcast, also the founder of Loco Think Tank, which is a small business peer advisory organization. Patrick's a former member. Greg's a future member when he gets done with his college tour, perhaps. Patrick may come back as well, I hope. Jenny, we might have a spot for you with this new LLC.

No, I'm in the private sector. You can help us understand how to connect and navigate the, because business and government is a big deal. It is. In today's world. And so, I'm sure there's a lot of people that could use that expertise. And yeah, so that's me. I've been doing the Loco Experience Podcast for just over five years. We must have started a pretty similar time, huh, Patrick? Yeah, you're just that much better than I am, I guess. No, no, just better looking. That's true. So, what we're here for today is really to just develop a conversation. We hope to make this maybe a twice a year check-in collaboration podcast between a couple of my favorite local real estate professionals.

And part of the reason is, is because you guys know more than almost anybody what's happening, why people are moving here. I mean, I see some of the guests you've had on both of your podcasts, and you're like tuned in to the vibe of why the cool kids move here. Why did your parents move here, Jenny? Well, they have four kids, I'm the youngest, so my dad graduated from grad school in Boulder, and they were looking for a family-friendly place to live in Colorado, and they decided between Grand Junction and Fort Collins. And two nice towns, two college towns, a lot alike, but my mom thought that Grand Junction was, in 1964, was a little bit isolated for them.

So they thought they could, and honestly, the entrepreneurial spirit. I mean, Mark Zukove was, that's your uncle, my dad's tennis partner. So these sort of relationships and this entrepreneurial spirit that Fort Collins, that these guys exhibit, I think, and you all do, is really in our DNA here. It was a vibe. And it's very attractive, yeah. When I moved here, it was like, wow, this place is so cool, it's so encouraging. You start a business or start an idea, yeah. We're gonna round robin' this a little bit, and I think, Patrick, if you don't mind being my first, could you pose a question, and then we'll all kind of weigh in a little bit before moving on, and maybe we'll explore an adjacent question as it turns up, but I wanna have a little bit of time for each topic.

No, I mean, I've been tracking and following City Council for the last many years, and I think it was interesting watching City Council go from 30-plus priorities to 13, and it sounds like now they're going down all the way to five. And I'm a big believer in that, you know, like focus. If you're focusing on too many things, you're focusing on nothing. And so I think the question to begin with is what are the two to three things that Fort Collins does better than anybody else, that the reality is that's where maybe we should be investing all of our dollars, not trying to attract every type of business or specific, or anything along those lines, but what are the two to three things that makes Fort Collins pretty unique amongst anything else?

Especially around industry. No, I'm talking industry, I'm talking flowers in Old Town Square being a tourism destination, Colorado State University, you know, being a tier one research institution. I think what are the things that we should just be, as a community, focusing on? Like, it's the 80-20 rule, right? It's like 20% of what we invest is gonna bring back 80% of our return. So what is that 20% that we should be focusing on? Greg, that's an easy one. One of the things that comes to mind right away for me is parks and trails. You meet some people, the people at the city that are behind the scenes, that are absolute legends, people that have been working on these things for decades, I mean literally decades, to make these trails perfect.

These parks, Spring Canyon Park, City Park, Twin Silo Park, we have, I mean, some of the nation's best parks. The Poudre River Trail system is a gem. People come here from all over the country, even other parts of the world, and they cannot believe it. They're riding their bike along the river. I mean, there's no traffic, they're looking out at the mountains, they're looking out over water, they're having this experience. They're having it quite frequently, because we have 300 days of sunshine a year, even when it's cold out, it's warm out. These parks and trails, don't lose that, and continue to triple down on that, and we'll talk more about Old Town, too.

That's another gem, but parks and trails comes to mind immediately for me. To me, I always jump to economics, kinda, and like, monetizing the ideas that come out of CSU, you know, using its position as, you know, long-time agri-research kind of elements, both in the animals and the plants, but also now we've got, you know, all kinds more jobs moving here that are part of the government infrastructure, but leaning into that sector a little bit more, to me, seems right. It's not just because I'm a farm kid, but, you know, as AI does more and more things, you know, one thing it can't do is make food for us, you know, and we all need food, and so, to the extent that we can address kind of more efficient practices around making food, animal husbandry, all that stuff, that's gonna keep, even if there's a lot of disruption, which I expect there will be in the long run, we have to keep food affordable for the population to really thrive.

I think for me, to answer your question, I would double down on this innovation culture, and I think that leads to what you're talking about, and this idea that, you know, I always say everyone in Fort Collins has a side hustle, and somebody goes, what are you talking about? And I was at the Silver Grill having breakfast with somebody, and they said, what do you mean? I said, well, let's ask our server, and she came up, and I said, obviously you work at Silver Grill, do you do anything on the side? She goes, yeah, I make organic pet food. And I said, see, that's the spirit, I think, of Fort Collins, which grows the great jobs.

Innosphere's been fantastically successful, CSU, the spin-offs, if you are the kind of city that draws an imaginative, creative, dynamic person who knows that they can try something and fail and be accepted, I think it creates that dynamism that I would be looking for to keep alive in Fort Collins. How do we keep that alive here? What do you guys think? Because I couldn't agree more, that innovation culture, I've never heard it put quite that way, but I mean, you see that everywhere. I see that with Patrick. I see that with him doing his live reports. There isn't anybody that's keeping on top of the city happenings, what's happening with council.

I mean, he can just rattle off these things. He's done that in the real estate space. Your server is doing that in the organic pet food space, and everything in between is happening in this city. I think we've had four different residents on the show Shark Tank since the show Shark Tank started. Is that right? And I'd be curious to see the stats, per capita, what city has had the most contestants on Shark Tank. We have to be up there. Yeah. Well, and, sorry. No, yeah. I still want you to answer your own question as well. No, well, I'm curious also, as far as what Greg said, is how do we do that?

Because one of the things that we have is the brain drain, right? So it's hard to live here. It's not affordable. If you're working at Silver Grill and creating the organic pet food, you still have to have a place to live and work. And maybe the high enough paying jobs in the meantime while you're having that innovative. So I think it's a challenge. It's something exciting because there is that young, youthful energy that brings that innovation. And not just that, too. I saw a really interesting Instagram of today's influencer versus yesterday's influencer. And yesterday's influencer was big muscle meat head or a beautiful, beautiful woman.

But today's influencer is an 84-year-old homemaker that just truly knows their stuff. And so I think somebody who brings that innovative design and just drive isn't necessarily a young person. It can also be an older person. So I think it's a really good question is how do we maintain and cultivate that? Well, as the token libertarian in the room, I would say maintaining a very fiscally responsible city to me is a big part of that. Yes, love the parks, love the trails and things. And it's risky to get over your skis and how much government you spread on. And I wrote about this in my blog last month about the downtown parking.

For me, as a one-time startup business founder, if I have to spend $7 to sit in a coffee shop and buy a nice coffee with a tip, that's nice. But if I have to spend $6 to park also, I'm probably not doing it. And so then do I lose that connection? Do I have to register for a kiln and be a member here? And so whatever that cost of occupancy, of mixing, of connecting with people, the lower that cost can be, the better. I would agree. On the parking thing, I'm curious for more information to come out, how much will it actually cost? I'll never forget an experience I had in the year 2010. Los Angeles, my first time there, was excited to check it out, park my car in the parking garage, walk around.

There wasn't much going on. I think their downtown has improved since then. Actually, just over an hour later, I went back to the parking garage, pulled out. It was $52 in 2010 to park there. Was that for 24 hours, and you just used a couple of hours? No, that was for an hour. That's crazy. In their downtown core urban area. Well, I wonder why it was quiet down there. Well, right, right, maybe. And so I think it's, look, if it is $6 to park for you to go in and buy a coffee, that's one thing. If it's $1, $2, I think there's probably a way to make that make sense. And it seems to me that we're at least taking a measured approach to these types of things at the city level that I appreciate.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's better than, I mean, as long as it'd be kind of automated and stuff. But I want to get stuck on parking for too long. And Jenny, I want to leave space for you. I need two cents from Jenny, though. Yeah, I do too. Oh, well, what I was encouraging the city to do is plainly state the problem you're trying to solve and then approach the business community in Old Town and solve it together. So if we are having, because free parking's not free. We're all paying for that. So it's a question of how you share. It's a classic economic. You have scarce resource, which is space in Old Town to put your car, and how do we share that?

So there's different ways to do it. There's charging for parking. There's a BID district you could have, you know, a start down there. Fundamentally, I was encouraging the city to go back to the drawing board and partner harder with the downtown business district to see how they wanted to help solve. But first, the city had to present the actual problem. We're having a shortfall on this much because enforcement's this much and our maintenance is this much. These are the dollars we need to recover to be fair to the rest of the public who doesn't park there, right? Who's subsidizing that. And then go and say, how do we solve it?

That's more intuitively appealing for people to be part of solving. First they need to know the problem, and then they need to, because government is us, we need to be the one solving it. Well, I love it, honestly. Like, and my grandma gets mad at me because I told her, she's like, I can't believe they're gonna be charging. I'm like, I think it's great. We have options. You can park within that like six block radius and pay a buck, or you can park outside and park for two hours. You can park even four blocks away and walk. You know, there's options, which I'm a big believer of. But I also love the closed loop system, kind of like we have on the golf course here.

It's self-funding. The golf doesn't charge the city any money, whereas the parking, same thing. It's like we have parking infrastructures that everything costs. So either gonna charge the entirety of the city of Fort Collins a tenth of a cent on every dollar spent to get the parking structures, or they're gonna charge those who are choosing to voluntarily spend their money downtown a dollar to keep the infrastructure up. And then also, they said they were gonna have a potential overage, which they were gonna put money back into downtown Fort Collins. So if we're getting all the way back to my question, as far as what should we be reinvesting in, it is this is funds that people are spending already to go downtown to reinvest in downtown.

And if downtown is the jewel of Fort Collins, like I am as big of a proponent. So whatever it takes to keep that? Yeah, absolutely. Whatever it takes to keep that. I mean, when people come here from outside of the market we talked about parks and trails, yes, but the core reason they're coming here where they are starting is Old Town. It's the Silver Grill. It's Little on Mountain. It's, you know, fill in the blank. I mean, there's so many great options. Old Town Square, Old Town Square. So look, yes, I agree 100%. Let's do next question for you, Greg. Yeah, I'm curious, what are the three of you most excited about when you, and I'll answer my own question first, and then, you know, what are you most excited about over the next three to five years?

And then what are you most concerned about? Are there any concerns? You know, what I'm most excited about is I see Fort Collins right now is almost Austin, Texas 25 years ago. You look at the tech sector, you look at the healthcare sector, you look at the public university and how that's grown. You look at the nature trails and all of these things, the downtown area, it's different. It's a smaller footprint. It's never going to have the same population simply because we have the height, zoning restrictions, et cetera. We will densify, we will not densify that much. But I look at where that's going with, you know, things like public transit, with even, as amazing as the trails and the parks are now, like where that could go.

The restaurants, the amenities, the coffee shops, the retail, just the family-friendly atmosphere. I just, I kind of see that, and it's not that, look, we're tracking towards any perfect other city. I think it's going to be Fort Collins in its own unique way. But I see these things happening, and it's, to me, that's the most exciting thing. And yeah, I think if there's anything I'm the most concerned about, it's probably just, you know, things like traffic and how do we manage this process in a way where we're not having issues with traffic, issues with crime, issues with some of these other things that will inherently be challenges to confront with larger populations.

Well, for me, it's always social, right? So what I'm excited about is, people at Fort Collins are amazing, right? You stop and look around you. You find people bringing in their neighbor's trash, or you just constantly, just slow down and watch, and you see it every day, right? So I guess next week is Random Act of Kindness Week, right, so you notice these things. So that's what I'm excited about, the continuation of that. I also feel like the voters of Fort Collins choose very wisely. So they chose to reinvest in our city and add more sales tax, reinvest, invest their money, and do the climate tax, the transportation tax, the rec tax, right?

So when they have this fundamental trust in each other, which I think is vital, so that's exciting. And then I always worry, on the other hand, about the larger national sort of bifurcation that, frankly, I don't really see evidence of that much here, I see some more than I ever did. But I worry that some, I just worry that people, my biggest hope is, because I don't like to worry that much, my biggest hope is some of this AI and everything, where we don't really know what's real and everything, especially in the news and AI, is that it drives us back to each other, and it really drives us back to local.

We have a neighborhood dinner every month, we have all these things, right? Like, you need to go over and meet your neighbor. So I think some of that, if I have a hope in sort of some of the things that I see that concern me, my biggest hope is it drives us back to each other. I think that's a good hope, and I hope we see it that way. One of the things I've noticed lately is how much cultural change you can see, like, over the last five years. And we had a gathering of our facilitators in January, and I think two of us were drinking alcohol out of eight, or something like that, in a four o'clock or six o'clock, no, it was an evening event, it was like a six to eight p.m. evening event, and nobody's drinking booze.

And I think that is good, I mean, people certainly have a focus on health, but it shows how much cultural change. You know, I've got a glass at home in my cupboard that says, from the Odell's IPA, and it says Fort Collins water. Like, it's a substitute for water in that scene. So I think that's an interesting thing, and by the same token, I think we could see a culture that evolves to become more community-centric, and I think part of the opportunity for Fort Collins is to help lead that conversation. So that, you know, as somebody, you know, like I said, that kind of classic libertarian, but I, you know, there's a lot of context where I'm gonna be in trouble if I, you know, if I wore my MAGA hat through the No Kings protests on the corner of College and Mulberry, I would not feel safe doing that.

And I'm not saying, I do have, actually I have a visor, but I don't, but I don't, but I don't wear it. Makes you clarify. But I mean, I do, so that's the biggest thing I'm concerned about also, as somebody that has always brought diverse viewpoints into the conversation, and I enjoy that. I don't feel safe necessarily in every context, every platform, having some of the views that I hold. That's interesting. So that's a concern of yours in the city going forward. Yeah, no, it very much is. I mean, it was a very purple town when I got here, and people were all pretty happy about that. And now it's a pretty blue town that there are some, you know, corners of the social media and stuff where it's, you know, you've seen it.

Sure. And the other way. I like, I always say that we kind of have a no asshole policy here in Fort Collins. I feel like, generally speaking, most people just play by that rule. But yeah, on the fringes, absolutely. There's always gonna be that. But overall, you know, that's kind of a policy that I think we as a community play pretty well by. You know, mutual respect for most people. At least the leadership and all the people and government and business and things like that. Yeah, and I don't think it's a facade. I think it's the actual character of those individuals that are like, we actually care about this community, care about each other, care about the success of one another.

So I hope that that kind of game that we play of the no asshole rule, I hope that continues. You know, as far as the AI driving people together, everything like that, hopefully it drives community and bonds closer because we will have to rely on each other. But you know, to answer your question, what am I excited about in the next three to five years? Isn't necessarily Fort Collins, but I would say Northern Colorado as a region. There's just a ton of investment. I know City of Fort Collins, one of the things that they're trying to do is like, how do we keep our sales tax dollars here? Because Johnstown is growing, you know, Sentara South in Loveland, Cascadia is coming along the way.

110 million dollars at the ranch is getting invested. You know, the Foothills Mall is potentially gonna have a 300 million dollar investment. Oh really? I mean, if it ever gets off the ground. But there is so much investment in this community and it's like, yeah, Fort Collins is growing slowly, like much, much slower than it was. You know, we're expected to get to 250,000 people, not by 2050, but maybe it's like 2060, 2070 and beyond. But I think as a region, the growth in the region is really bringing a lot of cool amenities and like, you know, the 80 million dollar Southeast Community Center.

I mean, that's awesome for those people on the south side. So I just am excited about the, especially being, like I talked to, with a lot of people who have kids, I'm like, when I grew up, you know, there just wasn't a ton of like competitive sports here. Like the best we could do is like go, like travel to Denver. But that, with like a region of about a million people now, I mean, it's a pretty, like, we kind of carry a heavy, you know, heavy punch these days as far as northern Colorado goes. I'm just excited about the region in general. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's just thinking about that and where the growth is heading.

I'm just, I envision this world, and I wonder if you envision it too, and you two see it as well, but like we are, we're just going to this place, I think three to five years from now, where, you know, more music venues, you know, more restaurants, more coffee shops, like more comedy clubs. These types of things that are just in these fun urban environments, but having this in this approachable place. And so where do the people come from? Where does the growth come from? I have worked with so many people from outside of the state the past few years, and that's been well-documented. I've talked about that on my podcast too, but here's an interesting stat for you.

Six years ago, if you look at realtor.com analytics, and you look at where the clicks come from, really going back to as long as I've been tracking this, which is almost 20 years, it's always been about half of the clicks are coming from inside of Fort Collins, which makes sense, right? People that want to move up and move somewhere else in Fort Collins. Well, the other half has been coming from other places, and the leader has traditionally been the Denver area. Going back six, seven years, Denver was the number one market outside of Fort Collins that was clicking on Fort Collins listings, and it was at about 7% of all the clicks were coming from the Denver area.

What's fascinating is you fast forward to today, and it's 27% of all the clicks. I mean, it has spiked in this incredible way. Other areas have spiked too. The Phoenix-Gottesdale MSA has been bringing more people here. I mean, that's actually next at just over 12% of the clicks, but these people from these other areas, I mean, they're not just slowly moving here. They're quickly moving here, and they're sort of accelerating these things that we're talking about. I have noticed that for sure that Fort Collins has a lot more credibility with the grew up in Denver demographic than it did five years ago, even five, 10 years ago.

I think it's as parts of Denver's livability have decreased some with the Larimer Square not being as vibrant as it was and things like that. Well, then why do I wanna pay the extra premium to live down by here when I could live by Old Town Square and Fort Collins for half? So don't disagree. So it's a fair question. Like how do we make sure we don't mess this up has been a topic of conversation. I think that's all in all of our minds. For years though, at the perspective, just the longer perspective. They've been saying that since the 70s, which I love, and it's probably what's helped us maintain because it is kind of tricky.

You wanna keep the good parts while you're adding new parts, right? Yeah, but I love that. It's just pass it on. Yeah, I mean, like last time we spoke, Jenny, I remember you were telling me about how you spent so much time at that Stodgy Brewery. Just, I think it's close to maybe close to where you live. I have been there once or twice. Yeah, once or twice. I've seen you there at least four times. And you have your neighbors and you have your friends and you have the community get together. It's like, that's what this place is. And it's just, it's more of that is where we're heading. And I think we all wanna see that continue.

I do too, and I think it's exciting too. I mean, I think, you know, from my former perspective on city government, I just never understand why we would do the zoning like residential, you live here, but you can't even walk to get a thing of milk. You know, my husband and I just took a trip. We're all around the world. I mean, no other country in the world says, you live here, but you work here and you shop here. I said, nobody ever except for Americans, which hopefully we're getting more into the mix, commercial, residential. It's just a better way of living. It's more friendly, it's easier, it's less car centric.

You know, you can have your car, of course. I'm not saying that, but you know, if you wanna go get some milk and be real, it's great. You know, cause I live near beavers, like, and I don't know what the food co-op's gonna call it, but. Did you see their logo? No. They got a little beaver on it, but I think it's the food co-op. Okay. But it's got a little beaver on it, so they're paying homage to it. Oh, I think. That's great, I love that. I think they open tomorrow. Oh, is that right? We cannot wait. I'm excited for it to be reopened again, too. Yeah, it's really. Hey, you're right there, too.

Yeah, yeah, no, it was at least a once a month stop for some great fresh bread. Once a month? Every night I'm over there, and you can see, like, all your neighbors are having for dinner. You're like, oh, oh, that looks good. Maybe I'll get that, too. What's this set up there? So it's a membership, and then you get discounted food prices, or how does that, what's the food co-op? I've never been a food co-op member, so I'll let Jenny talk to that. Yeah, so the food co-op, yeah, you join, and then, so it's gonna be new, because you know where it was before. So I went down to join, so I could actually donate to help them get up and going, but then I wanted to join for my mom, too, and they're like, no, she's been a member since 1972.

I'm like, of course she is. Well, mom, you're already a member, okay, fine. And I think, I'm interested to see what they open, because the food co-op had sort of limited offerings, and that is a very public corner with the entire neighborhood shop set. Well, it was really hard to shop at the food co-op, because you couldn't park very close, and so you're lugging your food a long ways, whereas now they've got a great parking situation. And we bike and walk over there, and really, it's a daily sort of European-style shopping. You kind of go and get dinner and come back, yeah. So we'll see how they've expanded their offerings, because I think they're gonna maybe be surprised at how many customers they have.

Have a butcher maybe there, kind of like old beavers? Oh, wouldn't that be nice. That would be awesome. I doubt it, though. It's complicated. Decreasing skill set in today's world. I don't know. Jenny, did I give you an opportunity to ask a question? Yeah, I don't think so. I need to be a moderator here. Oh, oh, oh, my question was just gonna be about, so from my perch for the last 12 years been in government, so how in the future to build a future that we keep kind of talking about? I think we have a nice shared vision. Shared vision, not consensus, but a complementary discussion point. How can government, how can people who aren't in government or the private sector or anybody really, because the government is just us, as I mentioned before, really help to get in and shape that leg of the stool?

And from the private sector viewpoint, how do you think it's going and how do you think that we, as I'm saying, we now, not as a government, can be helpful enough? What's that culture? Helping see that vision, yeah. I think with a nod to my producer, Ben, from This Is NoCo, he's got a sticker that says local, supporting local. And I think if we can expand that messaging and keep that local business centric, and even really, in my opinion, outside of the coffee shop owners and stuff, they don't get too much ire, but a lot of small business doesn't have as much reputation among the teenagers and the 20-somethings and the 30-somethings because they're kind of big bad businesses, even when they're kind of small.

So I think having the culture be really warmly receptive to startups and local businesses and creative concepts and innovation, and having that be not a business community trend, but a everybody trend of intentionally spending local, getting those dollars, recirculating the local economy. And avoiding, you know, there's been huge absorption of almost every veterinary practice is no longer a local business anymore. It's all private equity. Half of the HVAC and plumbing companies in town are owned by big private equity now. And they're not really local. The owners are not local. They're not donating to the sports teams.

They're not lugging their kids around. So really trying to be an intentional local, supporting local is one of the things I would say. And the city can help with that messaging too. It is true, some things that I, you know, some healthcare and everything, you can tell when it becomes bought out by private equity. All of a sudden, you're a preservation. Look what happened to associates in family medicine. It's really crazy. It was terrible. And then I promptly quit and seek out a local. But it's hard to, you have to kind of dig to make sure that that one's still, anyway. Yeah, no, thanks for your insights there.

I'll jump in. You know, I think they're working on it, but cutting a lot of the red tape, you know, for business. They're making it easier. I was just listening and there was like, to start a restaurant, 40 steps for a restaurant to go through eight different fees, 12 different review cycles. It was insane as far as the restaurant goes. And I think they have an intentionality now to reduce some of that and make it easier for business. It's not so daunting, because I will say like, even right now, I've got a warehouse that I'm just going for like, unitizing some of them for mailing purposes. Some of the questions that I've got to go through and hoops I've got to jump through, I'm like, man, this just shouldn't be like that.

So I think they're working towards that, because you know, I think there's that whole government bloat type thing. It just, you didn't mean to get to that point, but all of a sudden, we're there. So I think that's one of the kind of arms that the government could do to help small business kind of partners just make it a little bit easier, friendly, transparent, easy to understand what steps you have and not have to backtrack and use 10 different entities within the government. And then I would also say, whether it's a 900 million with $300 million kickback or $600 million budget, I think the government's got a heavy financial arm that they can help small businesses in some form or fashion, fees, rebates, however that might be, where if you're truly local and you can show some sort of import-export type deal of staying local as far as capital and goods that you're putting in or services putting in, I think that's where I think it could really supercharge some of these small businesses.

I agree with all that, that's really good. I mean, what comes to mind for me is a growth mindset and a commitment to informed decision making. Like a growth mindset, like I'm not going to make judgments about a business owner, how rich they are, how rich they aren't. Let's just take it down to like the old town levels, we're talking about old town business owners and building owners. They have to kind of work together, right? They might be leasing space in a building. I think a lot of people think, well, that building owner is just a wealthy person. You know, there's kind of that narrative. I don't know if they've spent a few months speaking.

Yeah, yeah, there's that narrative out there. I kind of hear that in certain circles and maybe in some cases it's true, maybe in some cases it's not, but I think understanding that I think our biggest risk in the old town market right now is when you see property taxes spiking as much as they have the past several years. Concurrently with property insurance rates spiking as much as they have the past couple of years. And then concurrently with things like, well, you know, yeah, the cost of goods if you're a restaurant going up. So now it's more expensive to operate, have a building. A lot of those expenses with triple net lease, if people know what those are, that's when the taxes, the insurance, the common area maintenance gets passed along to the tenant.

So look, people think that they're taxing the business owners. They think that. Little do many of them know, again, informed decision-making and committing to a growth mindset to understand these things, that those expenses are getting passed along to the tenant. And look, I think just understanding the different sides of this equation, understanding that we want the same thing, a thriving downtown, successful business owners, and maybe checking our judgment, checking our preconceived notions at the doors, at the door at certain topics, and sort of just proceeding to talk, have conversations, invitations.

And I'm seeing that at CSU right now, bringing a lot of people in the private sector into my classes to speak in my classrooms, to interact with other faculty. And it's just fascinating. We all think we know certain things, we have certain opinions, and we all have something to learn, myself included, every single day, and we need to keep doing that. That's one thing that's really changed since my time. I started banking in 1999, really, actively. And at that time, the principal and interest of a mortgage was like three quarters to 85% of the overall. Now, if you own a building outright, you don't have a mortgage on it, like the insurance and the property taxes is still a pretty big burden.

Like, you don't wanna run that thing empty for very long because it costs a lot to have it be that way. And so it's an interesting thing. And that's kind of a tax on being here in Fort Collins in some ways that's different from the cost of the capital, the principal and interest of a mortgage, that those assessments being that high and the weighting of it, it's all complicated. Well, this year was exceptional, right? With property taxes, county, right? So it's also important to know which lever to talk about, right? But that, in my view, was not. My husband's an economist and we own a commercial building and he did the Math Six Wages Sunday.

He said, this isn't a math. This math doesn't add up. This was an intentional decision. And how's the county's stewardship? Is the county in good shape financially or is it trying to cover some gaps too? That's my guess. Too many firefighters and all of the things? No, I think they're gonna see some pullback from federal funding and that sort of thing, so yeah. And the demands just won't stop, right? Especially in the social services. And I don't mean demands, I mean like the services. Right. Mike, next question for you guys is, is anybody willing to share a taste of the WizCal with me live on air here?

Sure, I'll be. All right, love it. I'm not one of those. I have to pass. I'll pass. Thank you, I do. Are you going to pass? I'll pass as well. This one person said yes. I feel like she's joking. Patrick. That's not good player. I give a shout out to Seed and Spirit Distilling that has this, it's whiskey and mezcal. Basic a hybrid cocktail. Cheers, buddy. Patrick. There you go. And if you didn't take a shot, then you have to try my hot sauce. I'll try it. I'll take a shot of hot sauce. Okay, a shot. Oh, don't take a shot, it's too crazy for that. Yeah, no, we shouldn't have maybe committed to that so quickly, who knows?

Patrick, your tasting notes. You know, I'm a big ol' wimp when it comes to liquor, so I didn't have to, I took everything in me to not go, ugh, so, we're good. Well, not a great endorsement of the Seed and Spirit product. Well, I think it is. Yeah, absolutely. I think it is. So now. Does this sound good on air? Absolutely, it's the best, crunches. I'll make sure to do it while you guys are talking. So this is, by the Matador Mexican Grill, this is our new hot sauce, the Crazy Ginger. Oh, wow. That sounds great. And I'll pass this around. I'll ask the next question while you guys think about it.

And it's really focused on that innovation space and CSU in particular. CSU's been a driver of innovation, but I wondered to myself, and maybe this goes into the concerns, what would happen if CSU stumbled if it wasn't such a pillar of our economy and we didn't have innovation coming out of there? I think it's the pillar, right? Right. By far. Like it is. By far. It is 35,000 students, 8,000 employed. It is, if it goes down, even, I don't know, 10, 20%, we will feel it throughout the entire city. And I think AI is a real threat there. I think the value proposition for CSU is strongly being challenged, as is with all universities across the United States.

So it's a matter of how can we reposition ourselves, but in the meantime, hopefully CSU stays strong. And I don't know the inner workings at CSU nearly as well as I'm sure a couple of people here. So I'm just hoping they're being fiscally responsible and they can kind of like, it's not a game of who can win, it's just how long can you stay in the game? And I'm hoping CSU can stay in it for a long time. Same. You've got kind of an insider's view, Greg. Well, you started just this fall on your CSU professorship stuff? This past, last August, yeah. So a while back, I'm in my second semester now, and it is, here's what I'll tell you from, I guess my viewpoints have changed somewhat on it is that I've become more informed.

It is not going anywhere. I could not be more bullish on this place. I mean, these kids, I'm so impressed by these kids. I am so impressed by the faculty. I'm seeing growth mindsets on people who want to grow, who want to get better. I'm seeing kids who are hungry. I know with Evelyn this morning, if Evelyn's listening to this, she just got a job with Branding Rebe at Uplift Development storage, self storage company. Oh, cool, yeah, he's one of our members at Loco. And she just got an internship with them. Another student, Matthew, a little while back here, got a job with Waypoint. I mean, these kids are showing up.

They're smart, they're focused. This place, I'll bet all my chips to the center of the table is amazing, is CSU is already. But I don't think people have any idea where it's going. And in terms of the value proposition, just watch. The real estate program, it will be a top five real estate program in the country for job placement within the next five years. That's where we're at. 2013, I went to go speak at the real estate school. I think there were 89 people in the program. Today, we have about 400. Wow. The sales program, the Larry Kendall Sales Center for Excellent, Larry just endowed that.

Oh, did he? So that's taking off. We got the sales club together last week. We got the real estate club together with them. We had over 300 people in this ballroom. Larry came to speak. I'm telling you, the talent on display, the things that are happening there, what is coming, I think is going to blow everybody away. Thank you. I love hearing that. It takes some of the trepidation away from you. Talk about a beautiful marriage of public-private though, right there, like real world experience and the private bringing it to a public institution. I think that's awesome. The private sector loves those educated young kids that are motivated.

Absolutely. Yeah, and look, I'm a real estate agent with Live Sotheby's International Realty in town. That's what I do my day to day. I'm doing it right now, but I get so much joy and gratification from showing up to CSU campus because you feel the energy, you see the talent, you almost feel like a responsibility to kind of like guide these kids. Like it's there, like you can make an impact and people need to know that it's not just because it's me, someone from the private sector. I mean, these people who have committed their lives to teaching, to educating, like they deserve so much respect.

So you really see CSU out-competing its peers in that university system complex because the demographics are what the demographics are. Like there's fewer and fewer kids that go to college age coming online soon. Yeah, the demographic cliff is real. Yeah, that is real. I mean, we saw the largest intake this fall ever, right? When I spoke to some leadership up there, they said this might be the largest one ever. But the higher ed, and I'm so glad to hear your experience and I'm so glad they're hiring people like you to bring in that real world experience because, and then Larry Kendall, that sort of community commitment in Thai and like you said, the private, they have to pivot.

And it's hard for those big institutions to do this, but they have to pivot into sort of the future, not just talking about do we use AI to teach or not, but it's about really preparing people for the future, which is what they've always done, but in a very modern way, very probably workforce-based way maybe not so much degree-oriented or the degrees could change, right? There's nothing written down that you have to have a bachelor's or a master's or it can be whatever we call it. I mean, are you prepared to do the jobs that are required in the future? And when you start, I used to work in higher ed, so I think about these things a lot, like we need to like kind of blow off the doors of like how it used to be so that we can create something new for the future.

And I think if they come in with that mindset, all the sports thing is always interesting to me because it feels like there's two universities, and you guys probably know a lot more about the sports deal and the Pac-12. They promised if we had a big new stadium, we were gonna have a good football team. Yeah. They're gonna deliver us. Okay, it's all right. I got a thought on that. I think more people in Fort Collins wanna ride their own mountain bikes, I don't know. I talk about that all the time. Why is our stadium empty on a Saturday in Falls? Because, well, we live in Fort Collins. You can go mountain bike riding on Lower State Park and it's gorgeous.

Yeah, I won't name the other communities, but I can think of somewhere. Really, you would go to the game because I don't know what else you're gonna do. But here, I don't know. People are like, well, what about this? I'm like, I don't know. And that can be built, that can be bent with culture too, right? If it becomes a cool thing to do, you can see your friends and stuff, but yeah. It's the product on the field. It's the product on the field too. And I think that it just hasn't been there in the football stadium. Look, we've seen what happens when the product is on the field, right? You remember, it wasn't that long ago.

I mean, maybe it was. Garrett Grayson was the quarterback and we're packing out Hughes Stadium. Look, we can pack out that stadium that's off campus. We can pack out the one that's on campus, the on-field product. It needs to be better and it is going to be better. They just made the perfect hire. Jim Mora. I like it. I knew you guys would talk about this. I would just love it. I just listen. I'm like, I have no idea. I think we should toast with our tips here. It's gonna be crunchy. And the first person that's able... Cheers, guys. Cheers. Thanks for... Okay. Yeah, go really close to the microphone later.

And you make this. Matador made it for me. Matador made it for you. This is like the V5. I love that, Jim. Do they have a building or are they... Yeah, Matador Mexican Grill down in Harmony, right by the Cold Stone in the movie theater. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's what you're talking about. Nope, they've been there forever. It used to be... Roughly twice as hot as I thought it was going to be. It's great. Maybe I'll take a shot of that stuff here after we watch it. I'm pouring. It's really good. It was interesting you talked about CSU and sports and the product, all that kind of stuff, but it led me to think about the Bohemian Foundation and how lucky we are to have a billionaire benefactor to Fort Collins and kind of the impact that she's had on arts, culture, music throughout Fort Collins and invested into CSU.

And I think that's in the Larry Kendall endowment that just happened. All these individuals that are like, hey, pouring back into the community. I think that's just something that's not undervalued because I think people value it here, but I think not talked about enough as far as how lucky we are to have some of those individuals that truly care and are investing back in the community at a level that is making a significant difference. Yes. And I think that culture shift is something that the community foundation is already leading of that kind of, if the fates allow you to be generous, then do so.

Larry didn't have to donate whatever it takes to endow the selling center there. The Everett family didn't have to endow the real estate center. They did it because they love this region. And the more we build cool things, the more people like that we can create. And you see generosity coming through, not just financial generosity, but I already referenced your uncle, but he's a big mentor of mine in terms of being mayor of Timnath. And we had a meeting at Horsetooth with county electives or something. He didn't have to go. I look up and he's there at like a 6.30 on a Wednesday night. That's also a real form of commitment and generosity of spirit to a community, Northern Colorado community.

Nonprofit boards, all those kind of things. Sometimes I just think really great, sorry, but like lawn care, the way people take care of their homes. There's all sorts of ways to be generous and community focused. And I feel like I just see it all the time. And it's really, if you have the financial wear with all people are kicking in, but they're also kicking in in so many other ways. Yeah, I was just thinking one of the ways I'm kind, what's the thing next week? It's Random Act of Kindness Day or something. But I almost always shovel my neighbors to each sidewalk when it snows. And I've only done it like once or twice this year.

I was out of town for one of the three snows we've had. So that opportunity to be randomly kind. It can look for them everywhere. Yeah. You see them. I find a lot. Well, I think we're probably approaching an hour on the clock and we can do a little editing, but I feel like one kind of an encouraging note or especially people that are listening to this podcast from outside of Fort Collins that know nothing about this region. I'd love to just give them a window into the perspective and the angle that you see it from. And maybe Greg, I'll start with you this time. Two special things about Fort Collins just kind of popped into my mind.

One, Valentine's Day was recently here and it's going back to this community feel, people doing nice things. I think there should be a t-shirt that says Fort Collins, nice. And we did this, other friends have done this too, have kids. We have a seven-year-old and eight-year-old and our seven-year-old daughter, she loves art. And on our street, there are a lot of older people. Some of those older people have lost their partner recently as it happens. Ada, our daughter delivered a Valentine to each person who had lost a partner. And the moment, the magic that created, I can't even tell you. I mean, just you see tears, you see it's special.

It's these little things that happen in this community that I don't take for granted. I don't think anyone here takes for granted and they don't happen everywhere. And let's also talk about just this innovation culture. I want to send a shout out to Cynthia Eichler. She is the CEO of Visit Fort Collins. Visit Fort Collins isn't just this little storefront where people can stop in and get a map and find their way around Old Town Road. She's a banger. She is absolutely just moving mountains. She is bringing people here to experience our city. A lot of the names, she can't even mention. She's putting on these amazing ramp talks.

They're kind of like TEDx-type talks and everything from, there's such a wide spectrum. Once someone was, an expert was coming and talking about how elephants communicate in the wild. Super fascinating talk. The other one was that the star of the movie, American Pie, that late 90s. He's directing now and he brought his son in and was talking about his artistic journey through directing and bringing his son with him on that journey. So these ramp talks, recruiting these really amazing, talented people to experience our city, to then write about our city, whether it's a journalist for Men's Health, which that was another one that she brought in, to these thought leaders and influencers.

That's a really special thing that's happening here. They stay at the Elizabeth, they experience Old Town, they go out to dinner and visit Fort Collins finances that through the different avenues where they collect revenue. So those two things that come to mind. Can I chime in on that? Yes, please. Cynthia Eichler, she invited me to go to a board governance conference for the tourism industry last year. So I had the honor of joining her and some of her staff at a national conference. And I give a little talk with a couple of other mayors, but that's not the story. The story is, do you know exactly what you said, but amongst her peers, she is a national rock star.

I mean, you can feel it, but to know it, people kept coming up to me, do you know what you have there? Do you know what she did? Her white paper that she wrote on how to change the whole vision of what a visitor center is, became a national model. Wow. So she is one of these maker creator and the way that you describe like what she's actually doing, the nuts and bolts, it's borne out by her national reputation, respect by her peers. So I was just smiling the whole time you're talking. I love it. We're lucky, we're lucky to have her here. Unbelievably lucky. And she's as humble and kind hearted as anybody in the world.

Jenny, would you like to chime in for that Fort Collins stranger that's listening? Oh, the Fort Collins, I think Fort Collins is. It's a place where you can be yourself, right? And I was sad to hear that you didn't feel like you could wear your visor, not hat, but visor wherever you wanted. Because I think it should be a place of freedom of thought, tolerance, open-mindedness, and kindness, right? And I think for the most part it is. I think we have a laissez-faire, half libertarian attitude here. You know, the richest person in the room is usually the person in the car hearts or overalls and you know, hanging out doing their stuff and not talking about it.

So I just hope that it's a place where you can move here and be who you want to be and do what you want to do and feel supported and not judged and that you're welcome. I'll take that. Patrick, you want to take it? I think that's great. I talked with my wife about one of my maybe biggest regrets or potential like things that I may have missed out on life is I've, you know, born here in Fort Collins. Never lived anywhere else, are you? Oh, in Loveland for nine months. You know, Northwest love was at that. So you know, I really spread my wings. But then you know, we work with all these people that relocate here and understand kind of like the what's special about Fort Collins and it's like we went to Urban Egg today and then walked around Old Town for an hour and it's just clean, well kept, you know, feel very safe and then it's on a weekend and it's beautiful 65 in February which is maybe not amazing.

Like we should get some snow here every now and again. But 65 in sunny in February and we're walking around some of the parks and trail systems that we have here just out our back door and our kids going to, you know, Werner Elementary. That's an extremely solid school with teachers that have been there for 20, 30 plus years that just love the school system schooling. So then I kind of take a step back and be like, you know, I think I've had enough people move away for college, move back when they're raising their family and people have relocated here and they're like, no, this is a pretty special place.

So I'll just take their word at it for the next, at least my youngest is four, so the next 14 years. And when he graduates college, you know, maybe we'll get a second house here or there and go explore some places. But for then, that's what. You know, I'm gonna talk about the water. Well, twofold. One, the water that you drink out of the tap here in Fort Collins is amazing. Like people that come to visit and it's like, our exchange students, my wife and I host a lot of exchange students, like your water is so good. But also more importantly to the experience is the Poudre River corridor, the trail, the Poudre Canyon with, I don't know, a dozen campgrounds and day use areas in a 30 mile stretch.

Red Feather Lakes, a chain of finger lakes that's kind of been the mountain retreat for Fort Collins residents for a hundred years. The Horsetooth Reservoir, hopefully someday the Glade Reservoir will be a recreation mecca as well as a water supplier for many local communities. And in a state and a region where water is so precious, like having that experience, when I moved here, that was one of the coolest things. I thought Horsetooth was amazing and got some time on the lakes and it was like, that's so cool. And then I tubed the river and just about killed my wife when we got off the tube. Anyway, longer story, not for this venue, but the water, there's something in the water and you'll like it.

Great. Ben, did you get that? I think that's a good t-shirt for you. There's something in the water. Something in the water. I like that. Well, I think you guys are awesome. Each and every one of you at this table. And thanks to the Kiln, Fort Collins for hosting us here and they're- And our sponsors. Very small and stuffy podcast studio with the Crazy Ginger Hot Sauce. Thanks you guys. I'm glad you liked it, Greg, even despite it being a little spicier. I was actually, I liked it even better because it was spicier. It was a little bit unexpected, but in a good way. Well, with a name like Crazy Ginger, you got to have- It was delicious.

Good. Well, we'll be selling that stuff here pretty soon. Thanks for the invitation. Thanks for you guys. Appreciate it. Thanks, Kurt. Bye for now.